Should this still work on recent distro's?? Ubuntu 23.10 in my case

[GoodTimeAlliance]

Apologies if I am using this wrong I am new here and new to Linux also to be honest.

I have a 12fx and have just switched to linux to try and take advantage of the pipewire multi audio interface capabilities.
I am no programmer or Linux pro, I simply want to get Bitwig with all my bits and bobs running.

I have been trying to install this app but had no luck. I get a "pip: command not found" message.
Do I need to open a terminal from a specific location to make this work??

Should this program still function in ubuntu 23.10??

Many thanks indeed & apologies again if I am using this developer space wrong.... I couldnt see another way to communicate.

Regards

Craig

[ndim]

First, you are using "this" perfectly fine. GitHub issues is where you file your issues and can expect someone to help you resolve them.

Second, congratulations on finding socranop-utils at all.

Third, let me summarize the history of soundcraft-utils: @lack originally wrote soundcraft-utils using the Python language which allows selecting which mixer inputs to route to the USB audio channels, both with a graphical user interface (GUI) and with a command line interface (CLI) tool for the terminal. Then I came along and rewrote some parts of soundcraft-utils to avoid a few problems, and then we renamed the result to https://github.com/socratools/socranop and rewrote it some more and I still had to update the documentation and then life happened and socranop still has not yet had the release it should have had... literally years ago. socranop should have replaced by soundcraft-utils some time ago, with ready made packages for Linux distributions like Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, etc. shipping.

Somewhat in parallel, I have written https://github.com/socratools/socradoc describing the USB communication between Soundcraft's "Soundcraft USB audio control panel" on MacOSX, complete with a small proof of concept utility written in the C programming language.

Fourth, without actually having tested it, I would expect it is possible to make soundcraft-utils work on Ubuntu 23.10. You will probably run into some problems we have fixed in socranop. I would expect and hope you will run into fewer problems if you were running socranop, when taking everything together. I cannot remember the details of soundcraft-utils off the top of my head.

Fifth, if the pip command is not found, you have not installed the pip command yet. On Ubuntu, this appears to be shipped in the python3-pip package.

Sixth, I can offer to write step by step instructions for installing the soundcraft-utils successor socranop with its GUI and CLI on Ubuntu 23.10. Let's discuss this over at socratools/socranop#83

If you do not need a working GUI right now and a CLI tool for the terminal is acceptable, following the build instructions for https://github.com/socratools/socradoc might be simpler, if you want to try that for now.

Anyway, thanks for giving me a push to finish the remaining tasks for a socranop release.

[GoodTimeAlliance]

Hi Hans.

I have tried again to install but I hate to say the task is beyond my Linux knowledge.
I copied the "prerequisites" code into my terminal and that all went smooth... I believe.

However the next section "Installation & Configuration" is where I hit the wall.
I get the message "Error: externally-managed-environment"
The "D sub service" and "xdg desktop entry" stuff means absolutely nothing to me.
Sincere apologies for being such an idiot in this department.

If you do have time to write step by step instructions I really would appreciate it massively.
I would happily buy you a few beers for your efforts. Also, if you had no objections I would write again to Soundcraft asking them to give you money to sort this out...... Are they aware of your project??
More and more audio people are moving to linux to take advantage of Pipewire as well as the OS's low overheads and less intrusive updates compared to Windows. I really think it is about time manufacturers took the platform more seriously for DAW/audio users.

By the way I dont care about the ducker function or firmware upgrades for that matter, I seriously doubt there will be another update anyhow. I can always use my old win pc or mac to update if needs be. Changing the USB routing is all that matters to me.

Many huge thank you's for your time

Craig

[ndim]

Oh right, the externally managed enviroment thing. Sorry, I had forgotten about that. I still have to figure that out in socranop. Could you give me a day or two to let me figure out a way to do this? Last time I got to that problem, I did not get anywhere easily and therefore continued working on something else. But having an actual user interested in this does change things.

Then let's continue discussing this in socratools/socranop#83, and get you up and running with socranop, not soundcraft-utils.

[ndim]

More and more audio people are moving to linux to take advantage of Pipewire as well as the OS's low overheads and less intrusive updates compared to Windows. I really think it is about time manufacturers took the platform more seriously for DAW/audio users.

I have no experience with the world of "audio people", but that is very interesting to know.

I mainly have the Notepad-12FX as I wanted to play along with my electric guitar to sound from the computer via USB audio (music playback, audio from youtube videos, etc.) or from my phone or tablet via an external Bluetooth receiver or a USB-C to stereo RCA/Jack adapter cable. No audio production is going on here, but I do want to have the ability to do a bit in case I need it.

And I love to have physical controls to manipulate especially when listening with headphones. I really dislike it when the computer screen is locked and I need to get to some audio mixing software's GUI elements to change the volume of something that is playing in my headphones.

As there appeared to be no mixers on the market with builtin bluetooth audio where the BT audio uses a different channel strip than stereo USB playback, I chose the 12FX with an external BT receiver. The Presonus StudioLive ARc series might have worked as well, but those are a lot more expensive and to get a separate channel strip for BT and USB playback, the stereo USB playback still must be routed to channels 3+4 which looks like a bit of a hassle. It might be feasible with pipewire, though.

By the way I dont care about the ducker function or firmware upgrades for that matter, I seriously doubt there will be another update anyhow. I can always use my old win pc or mac to update if needs be. Changing the USB routing is all that matters to me.

[Context: IIRC the Soundcraft utility has three tabs for its three functions: Audio routing, Ducker, firmware upgrades.]

I would be very surprised as well if Soundcraft published a new firmware version. They appear to have published the version which added the ducker functionality after the hardware had started selling which is very nice (and in terms of signal processing, simple to implement), but USB audio probably works well enough to not need a firmware update.

The thing I personally would like to see added to the firmware are USB commands for querying the device state regarding audio routing, and possibly regarding ducker state. Those commands might actually already be there, but the MacOS software appears to not use them, and therefore I have no knowledge about them. The most likely explanation for the lack of such commands being used is that such commands do not exist in the firmware.

[GoodTimeAlliance]

Hi Hans, Hope you are well sir.

I am sorry to say that I have not been able to give Socranop any attention recently. The last couple of weeks became a tad hyper all of a sudden and I have been away from my main computer. I will hopefully have chance to give it a whirl tomorrow.

While away however I have had chance to think about my studio and my shift to Linux as my main OS for audio.

The main issue now apart from the notepad 12fx problem is my Akai MPC.
I wonder if you would be able to tell if in theory my idea is even possible. I don't know if you know much about the MPC's but here is my issue.

The MPC is capable of audio over USB and it is possible to use any class compliant USB audio interface with any semi recent MPC to add up to 32 ins & outs.

Based on the above one would imagine that when you connect the MPC hardwear to a computer those USB channels would be made directly available inside the DAW but no. Akai insist you use their bloody awful MPC software to achieve this which aside from not being available for Linux is a piece of junk on Windows or Mac anyway.

Do you think it might be possible to create a piece of software that sits on the PC which tricks the MPC into thinking that it is actually connected to a USB audio interface. A kind of virtual USB audio interface which appears in my DAW/Pipewire just like any other class compliant device. I have been told that this might be possible using something called USB gadget??

Akai have sold millions of these demi modern MPC's. Far more than Soundcraft have sold notepad 5/8/12FX's. I reckon every single MPC user would pay money for this software if it was available.

Many thanks for listening and apologies for going off topic.

Craig