notes

The name of the pub should be "The Bannister and Shamrock"

One scene should be going for a meal in the pub
There's a Red Herring dish on the menu, and if you order that then it comes on a plate showing an olden photograph of the pub but it's called "The Rose and Crown"

20:37:28 <evilnick|ipad> some hmhb lyrics are "Opposite the Bannister and Shamrock (which used to be the Rose and Crown) / I like to play Pat Boone on the county 
                         bassoon as the evening sun goes down"
20:38:00 <evilnick|ipad> which no-one will know, but is the kind of sly reference that I like in my games!



16:41:57  * gevaerts just picked up the flag and the hole
16:42:17  * evilnick_B considers those to be bugs!
16:42:33  * gevaerts isn't sure
16:42:37 <evilnick_B> Also, the plate that delivers the red herring should only be visible AFTER the red herring meal is eaten
16:43:00 <gevaerts> I can do that. What you're seeing is basically the description of the herring
16:43:28 <gevaerts> If you take the hole though, it should be possible to put the hole in a door later on if you don't have the key
16:45:45 <evilnick_B> Oh, and definitely with taking the hole and using it to get through a gap/door later on
16:46:00 <evilnick_B> That's the kind of non-obvious and annoying solution that we absolutely need
16:46:20 <gevaerts> I wouldn't use that as the "official" solution, but it should work :)
16:46:38 <gevaerts> "put hole in wall"
16:47:03 <evilnick_B> Oooh, now that gives me an idea
16:47:21 <evilnick_B> A "hole in the wall" is slang for a cashpoint/ATM
17:11:16 <gevaerts> Oh, we could use the hole in another way too
17:11:29  * evilnick_B raises an eyebrow
17:11:35 <gevaerts> If you pick up the hole, you now have a hole in your pocker/holdall/bag :)
17:11:51 <gevaerts> i.e. you start losing other stuff randomly
17:11:56 <evilnick_B> loosing*
17:12:24  * gevaerts lost some grammar there. He only thought about picking up the hole, so it was in his head
17:12:26  * evilnick_B likes that idea too
17:12:42 <gevaerts> But you can still put it in walls or doors later on
17:12:53 <evilnick_B> But can we have a bottomless bag/sack which will hold it without stuff dropping through?
17:14:08 <gevaerts> Well, I see it as a trade-off. Either take the hole and get through doors without a key but drop things randomly (without it telling you of 
                    course!), or don't take the hole, you need keys or things, but you get to keep your stuff
17:14:44 <evilnick_B> Okay, that makes a lot of sense
17:15:22 <gevaerts> We need to think about how to prevent people just checking every turn
17:16:16 <evilnick_B> Checking what?
17:16:19 <evilnick_B> Their inventory?
17:16:28 <gevaerts> yes
17:16:42 <evilnick_B> We shouldn't stop them from checking
17:17:03 <evilnick_B> A random item falls out every n turns without causing the player to be alerted
17:17:13 <gevaerts> you mean, if they can be bothered to keep typing extra commands all the time, good for them?
17:17:27 <evilnick_B> But if they "look" then they'll see that item in their present location/not in their inventory
17:17:54 <gevaerts> Unless you lose things when moving to the next room, and it stays in the other one
17:18:22 <evilnick_B> Yep, that should happen within my rules above :)
17:18:46 <evilnick_B> Should the hole itself fall out of the bag?
17:19:40 <gevaerts> That would cause existential problems
17:19:47 <gevaerts> possibly :)
17:20:17 <evilnick_B> It could be argued that the hole is stuck to the outside of the bag, and so could drop off the bag, leaving it intact
17:20:33 <evilnick_B> Of course, real-world logic doesn't need to apply in this game
17:20:42 <evilnick_B> Only if we want it to, and only locally
17:21:14 <gevaerts> If real logic would apply, you couldn't take a hole out of a flag, keep it in your pocket for a while, and then put it in a wall
17:21:52 <gevaerts> I want that feature in soon though, so we can wait for play testers to complain that you can take the hole
17:22:18 <gevaerts> the basic feature anyway
17:22:25  * evilnick_B doesn't want many testers from -community involved
17:22:31 <gevaerts> indeed not
17:22:43 <evilnick_B> I want them to have the chance to play it "unsullied" when it's omplete
17:22:45 <evilnick_B> +c
17:22:46 <gevaerts> Torne sounds like a good tester, but the others? I don't think so
17:29:46 <evilnick_B> Torne would be (in my humble opinion) a great tester because he'd be able to break things
17:29:56  * evilnick_B endorses this choice
17:31:19  * gevaerts considers not doing anything about taking the flag as well. It might come in useful later
17:31:52 <gevaerts> Also, if the hole stays in the flag (instead of being in your pocket on its own), you obviously don't drop things
17:34:25 <gevaerts> Oh, there's a nice go-back-to-the-starting-point thing! If the hole ends up on the floor (i.e. you drop it), you fall through it
17:35:11 <gevaerts> You can't get the hole back then of course (which you probably can from the other side of a door/wall), unless you find another hole somewhere else
17:35:31  * gevaerts likes this hole business


21:58:27 <evilnick_B> If you know her name: She accepts one drink from you
21:58:40 <evilnick_B> If you don't know her name: she gets haughty and wanders off



01:29:56 <gevaerts> That horse/hoarse thing of yours
01:30:19 <evilnick_B> Yes
01:30:39 <gevaerts> I've been thinking about that. Maybe some wording like "Only a horse can get through", and when you scream, you *are* hooarse

01:31:34 <evilnick_B> For Cliche-land
01:31:55 <evilnick_B> You start off in London, in a series of dark passageways, they all look alike...
01:32:25 <evilnick_B> At some point you find a torch, missing batteries, so have to locate the batteries and then can find your way through the otherwise impenetrable 
                      (literally) maze
01:33:13 <evilnick_B> Whilst getting through the maze, it stops being so dark, you throw away (or otherwise lose) the torch
01:33:51 <evilnick_B> Later on, you're in [random US city] and are in a familiar situation, dark passageways, find a torch without batteries etc.
01:34:22 <evilnick_B> But this is a US style torch (as opposed to a flashlight) so only needs a naked flame to ignite it!
01:34:45 <evilnick_B> Only those two need to be close together in  the narrative to properly work
01:35:04 <evilnick_B> And I haven't really thought anything through yet
01:35:16 <gevaerts> Is "flame" common for "person you like a lot"?
01:35:36 <gevaerts> Common enough for weird puzzles I mean
01:37:44  * gevaerts thinks about one of the solutions being undressing your ladyfriend or getting her to undress. This would involve the "drunkenness" value
01:38:35 <evilnick_B> Of yourself or RI?
01:38:37 <evilnick_B> :)
01:38:42 <gevaerts> both I'd say :)
01:39:05 <evilnick_B> Flame would refer to person you like a lot who reciprocates at least some of your feelings
01:39:21 <gevaerts> well, she's following you in this maze
01:39:21 <evilnick_B> Otherwise it's back to the old standby of "stalkee"

01:39:47 <gevaerts> Anyway, that wouldn't be the *only* solution I think
01:40:27 <evilnick_B> Can some of the girls be named after flowers that the Florist does NOT stock?
01:40:29 <evilnick_B> i.e. Daisy
01:40:41 <gevaerts> Oh, sure
01:40:52 <evilnick_B> Or that he does stock but they're dearer than the rest :)
01:41:03 <evilnick_B> Which you can not afford
01:41:08 <evilnick_B> Ever
01:41:16  * evilnick_B really drums this point home

01:42:04 <evilnick_B> P.S. The red herring should not be needed for RI to arrive
01:42:08 <gevaerts> I'd say, Daisy, Rose, Violet and Hiacynth
01:42:37 <gevaerts> Hyacinth
01:42:39 <evilnick_B> And Herbaceous Border
01:42:47 <evilnick_B> Who had interesting parents
01:42:53 <gevaerts> Yes, clearly :)
01:43:54 <gevaerts> Yes, maybe just a larger food menu where you can order whenever you feel like it
01:44:06 <gevaerts> With possibly more interesting food
01:44:40 <evilnick_B> Oh, in that case there has to be a daily special, with a board that you cannot read the writing on
01:44:50 <evilnick_B> So you have to order it as a mystery dish
01:45:23 <evilnick_B> And the waiter brings it out to you and it's a closed box, that every so often the lid moves up and a pair of beady eyes look warily out
01:45:48 <evilnick_B> And you can't bring yourself to eat it
01:45:56 <evilnick_B> AND THAT'S IT
01:47:09 <evilnick_B> You keep examining the dish and can hear a faint quacking
01:47:18 <evilnick_B> If you complain/ask the bartender then he tells you that it's Peking duck.
01:47:53 <evilnick_B> THAT's the level of sophisticated humour that I'm aiming for :)
01:48:00 <gevaerts> Anyway, yes, the menu is an excellent place to fill with jokes
01:48:08 <gevaerts> It's the only thing it's good for :)

01:48:21 <evilnick_B> We also need a library so that we can use those silly book puns too
01:48:33 <evilnick_B> Venereal Diseases by I. P. Greene
01:48:40 <evilnick_B> The Haunted House by Hugo First
01:48:46 <evilnick_B> etc etc


01:49:20 <evilnick_B> And those are the points in the game where you can excel!
01:49:33  * gevaerts can hopefully squeeze in a limerick here or there
01:50:10 <evilnick_B> There could be a limerick-off as a competition at some point
01:50:11 <gevaerts> Maybe (in re. the maze thing) you can book a flight to the US in the library?
01:50:30 <evilnick_B> Or win one by winning the competition...
01:50:47 <evilnick_B> Let's not blow all our narrative beans in one scene!
01:51:33 <gevaerts> Well no, but I see the library a bit like the pub, a place that's packed with jokes and that's of use more than once


01:53:08  * evilnick_B isn't sure about having the pub as the hub (as it were!) now
01:53:28 <gevaerts> It would be a bit too limiting
01:53:36 <evilnick_B> The idea of "go to pub > get next quest" doesn't seem to lend itself to many scenes
01:53:39 <gevaerts> But we can have an entire town as the hub
01:54:06 <evilnick_B> Now that I do like
01:54:28 <gevaerts> I'd use the pub as the (main?) place to meet new girls, which you need for some of the quests (if you managed to lose the previous one)
01:54:48 <evilnick_B> Wherein *some* of the buildings offer quests and the others look enticing but don't have any routes out of 'cept the entrance
01:55:11 <gevaerts> Any building should have some jokes in it though
01:55:13  * evilnick_B sees this spiralling a little
01:55:23 <evilnick_B> Sure, totally

20:56:13  * gevaerts ponders a door that's too narrow to get through, a long stick, a curtain that's visible on the other side of the door, and a distorting mirror 
          hidden behind the curtain
20:57:17 <gevaerts> s/door/doorway/
20:57:19 <gevaerts> It's open
20:58:11  * evilnick goggles at gevaerts' mental aerobics
20:58:17 <evilnick> What's all this about?
20:58:27 <evilnick> Apart from reminding me of Wizard of Oz?
20:58:39 <gevaerts> The game!
20:58:47 <evilnick> And if you ask me, he's not much of a wizard if he can only look after 1 ounce
20:59:19 <gevaerts> Oh, and if the RI is with you, and you tell her to look in the mirror, she gets one that makes her look fat so she's angry at you
20:59:27 <gevaerts> (possibly)